It is reasonable to say that in all serious gatherings and useful discussion there is no breach [of modesty] and men meet with women on a daily basis for commercial exchange and negotiate, and there is nevertheless no breach and no outcry. And even those of more breached carnality will not contemplate carnality while dealing seriously in commerce. And our masters said 'do not increase conversation with the woman' (Avot 1, 5) only concerning unnecessary idle conversation, and such conversation leads to sin, but a conversation of debate concerning important and public issues does not. Sitting together in one place for the sake of public work, which is saintly work, does not accustom one to transgression or lead to negligence, and all the men and woman of Israel are saintly, and not suspect of breaching the boundaries of modesty and morality.